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Red's Army

Your Morning Dump… Where Danny Ainge doesn’t give a damn what you think

(09/28/2012 - Waltham, MA) Danny Ainge speaks to the media at the Celtics media day at HealthPoint in Waltham Friday afternoon.  (092812celtstbc - Photo by Tara Carvalho.)

(09/28/2012 – Waltham, MA) Danny Ainge speaks to the media at the Celtics media day at HealthPoint in Waltham Friday afternoon. (092812celtstbc – Photo by Tara Carvalho.)

Every morning, we compile the links of the day and dump them here… highlighting the big story line. Because there’s nothing quite as satisfying as a good morning dump.

“Right now, we’re trying to become a better team as fast as we can without selling out. I guess that’s the best way to put it,” Ainge said on Sports Final. “We want to become a more significant team this upcoming year. And, at the same time, we want to build something that’s sustainable for a longer period of time.

“I think that that’s my job in the organization. I think that ownership would like to see something happen faster. I know my coaches would like to see something faster. I know my players want to see something faster. I’ve been in their positions and I get it. I want to see something faster, too. But I just have to protect us from doing something irrational, just to get a little bit better…”

“There are just too many examples of really good players that the fans haven’t been excited about on draft day. Last year, I remember [Kristaps] Porzingis was drafted in New York and they were booing all over the place and you’re like, ‘Well, why would they be booing so much on Porzingis?’ When you draft players, I remember when I was in Phoenix and we drafted Steve Nash and we were booed. I remember [the Suns fans] booed when Dan Majerle was drafted in Phoenix. … You can’t base any of your decisions based on what the public thinks and based on what other people think you should do.”

ESPN Boston/WBZ Boston

Will I be happy if the Celtics take Dragan Bender with the #3 pick? Absolutely not. As a man of advanced age, patience is no longer a virtue. I want Banner 18 and I want it now!

Ever since Ainge jettisoned Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett for the Nets cache of draft picks, I’ve been waiting for the blockbuster trade of blockbuster trades. Some combination of draft picks and young players that nets us the next face of the franchise.

We’re on the precipice of an extremely important summer in Celtics history. Or are we? What if the moves are more incremental than blockbuster? Eeks… I don’t even want to think about it. It’s akin to waking up Christmas morning and being told, “We’re going to open gifts next year.”

As Ainge says, he can’t and won’t do anything irrational. Would you be happy if Demar DeRozan and Dwight Howard are wearing green next year? I wouldn’t.

So here’s to a patient and rational rebuild. Exhale.

Related links: CSNNE – China’s Zhou Qi intriguing option for Cs

On Page 2, the Raptors won’t go down quietly.

Despite a monster effort from LeBron James, the Raptors won game 4 and tied this series at 2.

The series is competitive but I refuse to believe the Cavs end up on the losing end.

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  • art

    All of you out there, you have to be patient. The team is sitting well as of now and the last thing we need is some stupid trade that makes the team better for one or 2 years but not for years to come. I agree with Danny 100%. Be wise. Be smart. Do it right. Draft picks are there, free agents are there. And a trade has to be the right one. One additional note is that Danny does not mention Rozier when discussing unhappy fans. The jury is still out on that one but it was a questionable pick at best and still is.

  • Michael Merriam

    The only reason I wouldn’t be initially happy with Dragan Bender pick is because Jamal Murray is too skilled and too far along to pass up. There are other bigs later in the draft. We know so little about Bender and he’s so young. Murray can step in now to give us scoring and another 3pt threat. I’d go with Ben Bentil as high as 16, definitely by 23 if he’s there. He’s been creeping up draft board. I’d be surprised if he doesn’t go late 1st round. Neither of these guys are going to kill it on D, but they are both volume scorers, solidly built, tough competitors. They’ll learn D.

    We already have rim protector Mickey. He may be a little goofy, but we have our stretch 4 in Olynyk. Bentil can replace Sully. Bring in Festus Ezeli! Trade anyone for Paul George.

  • romeo0119

    Can anyone explain to me this whole thing with Dragan Bender? This kid doesn’t even compete at college level, doesn’t play a whole lot on the team that he’s on. So why is everyone keep saying pick him at #3? Are we hoping for potentials? This team doesn’t need potentials, we need reliable and solid scoring. Why are all the scout in love with this kid? I would trade the #3 pick and get Qi later on in the draft if you need a big.

  • Sean

    Trade the pick, even if it’s not for a star, I don’t think there’s a 3rd guy in this draft whose better than a player like butler, horford, even okafur.

  • Wootay

    I am all for Bender if nothing big breaks. Even if it means trading down for him to pick up assets later on. https://youtu.be/U0Epg_sBZq4 I understand its only his good stuff they show but if anyone can get the best out of this kid its gonna be Stevens. I dont care that hes 7 foot and can shoot 3’s I like his foot speed and his ability to switch on pick and rolls on D. I would like Buddy as well but why when we have so many guards right now on this roster, and of course i would rather want Simmons or Ingram.

  • RedsLoveChild

    Here`s all you need to know about the level of competition Bender is killing it against in Israel :
    Nate Robinson dropped 46 in a playoff game last week. Nate is the Steph Curry of Israel.

    Consider yourself warned for Ainge to rip your heart out again.
    In football terms, DA {dumb ass} is great at moving the ball between the 20`s, but he`ll always find a way to fumble the inside the five.

    • AP

      Nate had one great game… otherwise he has been average at best.

    • zippittyay

      The guy whose avg draft pick performs 5.1 slots ahead of where they were picked?

      • RedsLoveChild

        “5.1”?
        Is that another crazy Ainge number you invented? Never heard anyone other than you refer to this mythical “5.1”.

        Explain how it`s calculated with “scientific precision”, and why anyone should care about it. Are you enjoying all the championships resulting from the 5.1?

        Guess what, the NBA lives in the real world. Not your fantasy world.
        Wake up! 2008 was 8 years ago…back when Barack Obama was an Illinois senator.

        • zippittyay

          5.1 comes from doing real analysis of real numbers from real results by real players (all of them) that Danny Ainge has drafted. Your opinion comes from prune-picking a couple of picks that didn’t work out (coming from draft slots where most don’t) and ignoring the ones that have done relatively well from where they were drafted.

          • RedsLoveChild

            -You STILL refuse to explain how the “5.1” is calculated.

            -You STILL refuse to cite your sources, which means who other than you has ever referred to this stupid number.

            -You STILL refuse to refuse to reveal how many championships the make believe “5.1” has brought to the Celtics.

          • zippittyay

            Actually, I explained it in a previous post you summarily dismissed.

            [zippittyay RedsLoveChild • 8 days ago

            Looking back at all the Celtic draft picks from 2004 to 2014 (I’m leaving out last year because IMO it’s just too early to tell from stats) Danny Ainge has made 26 total picks. Those picks averaged ranking 5.11 slots above where they were drafted in win-shares over their career. That is outstanding. The only negative years were 2012 where Fab being such a bust took away from Sully’s ranking 7 spots above where he was picked and 2014 as James Young not panning out so far has outweighed Smart’s bump from 6th pick to 5th ranking.]

            Here, you too can figure out how Danny Ainge’s draft picks have panned out against the competition instead of living in your own Monday morning quarterback fantasy world.

            http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2012.html

          • zippittyay

            And if you need instructions on how to use the sort functions on the link, I’ll be happy to assist.

          • KGino

            Good luck debating this kid with logic, zipp. If it’s any consolation, he looks like a baby with an opinion while you look like a man who debates with facts… As always with anyone who argues with this guy LOL

          • RedsLoveChild

            When you least expect it….

          • KGino

            You didn’t finish your sentence, so I will for ya!

            “When you least expect it…. I will actually debate commenters on this site like an adult instead of a Child (which is fittingly part of my username).”

            That would be great! Thanks bub! Looking forward to seeing it!

          • RedsLoveChild

            Just say “please”….and I`ll give you a cherished up-vote.
            Then, you can show proudly it off to everyone.

            They`re just like money, but only better!

          • RedsLoveChild

            I`ll play along with you.

            When I go to the home page of basketball-reference, where do I go from there?
            What should I click next? Where it says, “Draft”? Click somewhere else? Let me know, ok?

            I guess this “5.1” makes us the “envy” of the NBA, right?

            One can only feel pity for those poor fans currently rooting for OKC, GS, TOR, CLE.
            Having Ainge and his “5.1” is a million times better than competing for a ring, right?

          • zippittyay

            http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2012.html
            That link is for the 2012 draft. There are arrows at the top for previous and following years. The chart is in order drafted. Click on the top of the column that is labeled WS (for win shares) and it will rank them accordingly.

          • RedsLoveChild

            Ok, I see what you`re doing.
            So, according to this…Sullinger has a 15.4 w/s, he should`ve been drafted 7th instead of 21st. Is that the basic idea?

            If so, 2012 also shows…Fab Melo with a w/s of 0.0

            Yet, Ainge still drafted Melo over Draymond Green {24.7}, Khris Middleton {16.4}, Jae Crowder {15.1}.

            Do I now know where you came up with your numbers? Yes.
            Am I swayed or impressed by those numbers? Not at all.

            Those numbers ignore the big picture, they ignore the only thing that does matters.
            Where`s all the “successful” teams that we should be {and should have been} enjoying with all of Ainge`s alleged drafting prowess?

            Does it mean that Stevens {or Rivers before him} are terrible coaches since Ainge is such a proficient drafter?

            The only player Ainge drafted on the current team that worth a damn is AB. You can keep the rest! Just like you can keep all his previous other duds…Giddens, Pruitt, Brooks, and countless others.

          • zippittyay

            OK, let’s look at the ‘Big Picture’. Since 2004, the Celtics have won 58% of their games overall. That ranks them 7th among 30 teams. Let’s look at the teams that rank ahead of them and how they are doing now.
            Of the 6 teams that are ahead of them, only ONE, San Antonio, is now currently in a better position to keep winning in the future. The other ‘winners’ you envy so much are:

            Mavericks
            Lakers
            Suns
            Nuggets
            Heat.

            THOSE are the teams that have done better than Ainge in the ‘big picture’. Which one do you want to switch places with right now?

            Big picture, small picture, through a picture window, any which way you wish to look at it, Danny Ainge has proven himself to be one of the top executives in the NBA over an over again.

          • RedsLoveChild

            Without getting too bogged down in “minutia”…the Celtics have won a little less than 54% of their regular season games during DA`s 13 years {not 58%}.

            In 4 of those 13 years the Celts were a combined 140 games OVER .500
            In 9 of those 13 years the Celts were 59 games UNDER .500. You can guess which were the 4 super productive years.

            It was when Boston was led by Pierce {inherited by DA} and KG….when McHale`s owner ordered him to trade KG. McHale then decided to send KG to his former team rather than the hated Lakers.

            That`s the entire “Ainge success story” in a nutshell…he inherited Paul Pierce, and watched McHale choose him over Mitch Kupchak!

          • forever_green

            There seems to be a zero tolerance for DA negativity on here, which is nothing new. People get super defensive if someone dares say something about precious Danny. I’m NOT totally against DA, but I get where you’re coming from. The guy has made countless mistakes, yet those mistakes are ignored and frankly forgotten. That’s what’s annoying to me, also you have a right to speak your mind like everyone else, if people don’t like it to bad.

          • RedsLoveChild

            Not all, but most here swear an allegiance to Ainge that amazes the hell out of me.
            You`ll find more tolerance for dissenters if you walked inside the Church of Scientology and spray-painted graffiti all over a portrait of L Ron Hubbard!

            They act like it`s still 1957-1986…and the Celts continue to be the most successful/envied team in the NBA without interruption. They are in total denial! It`s fascinating.
            They really believe that if they say, enough times, that Danny/the Celts are the best, then it will become reality!

            Take away 2007-11, and Ainge has been a complete disaster!
            The two big reasons for the 2007-11 success was Pierce & KG. PP was inherited by Ainge, KG was a gift.

            McHale`s choice was easy…he made his fame & fortune in Boston. The Lakers kept him from winning 2 additional rings in the `80`s, plus he`s hated there due to the Rambis game. If McHale trades KG to LA and they win more rings, McHale becomes the most hated guy in Boston history!
            If a 36 year old Ray Allen is treated with scorn for leaving a sinking ship in Boston, try to imagine what McHale would face if KG ended up in LA!

            Look, I loved Ainge as a player, and I was happy he became boss in 2003. However, it did not take long to see that he was no wizard as a GM.

            Also, I`m ok with the caning I get here and, trust me, nobody gets caned more than me!

          • zippittyay

            By statistical average, an NBA team is due to win one championship every 30 years. We have, in a short span of couple years, gone from a team in the bottom quintile in wins to a top 10 team with a great coach, the best draft position of anyone including teams that have intentionally tanked, and we are among the very youngest teams in the NBA. Of course, I have already explained this to you as you continue to have the reasoning power of a spoiled child who can’t understand why every day can’t be his birthday.

          • forever_green

            So if DA wins at least one championship every 30 years that’s acceptable??? That’s ludicrous. DA is very average at drafting, just because some players temporarily over achieve doesn’t make him a great drafter. Does Sullys ranking of 7 spots higher really make him a great player or pick? Cause I can’t wait to get rid of his fat ass but can’t imagine many takers. Realistically DA is average imo and the team has only moderately improved in a very weak east since the big trade.

          • zippittyay

            In case you missed it, the East was the stronger conference this year overall. I never stated waiting 30 years was acceptable, it’s just the mathematical probability. I’m kinda weird in that I actually like to back up my arguments with facts and numbers. There are also many teams that have NEVER won a title>

            Teams that have never won the NBA Finals:

            Phoenix Suns.
            Cleveland Cavaliers.
            Los Angeles Clippers.
            Utah Jazz.
            Denver Nuggets.
            Brooklyn Nets.
            Indiana Pacers.
            Orlando Magic.
            Teams that have not won in over 30 years.
            Kings, Hawks, Bucks, Knicks, Blazers, Wizards/Bullets, Thunder/Sonics and 76ers.
            So, you say that Ainge is at best an average drafter.
            OK, give me at least 5 who are better.
            I will give you the first two to make it easier on you.
            1. Warriors
            2. Spurs
            3.
            4.
            5.

          • forever_green

            Numbers can be strewed many different ways. That’s not a reliable way to look at everything. If it was everyone would have the winning formula. You yourself just discredited the win at least once every 30 years stat. I’m not gonna waste my time comparing him to other teams, there are to many variables to take in account. Instead I look at his own body of work and it’s success to failure ratio. To me it’s very mediocre.

          • zippittyay

            I did not “discredit” the mathematical truth that your team is likely to win a championship only once every 30 years when you are but one of 30 teams vying for a title. I simply agreed with you that it would also be unacceptable to me as I expect the Celtics to be above average, which they certainly are. Now you are discrediting Ainge’s best trade that actually did bring us a championship (unfortunately only one) in a vain attempt to bolster your argument.
            Time to wake up and realize it’s not 1968 and there are more than 8 teams in the league and they are all trying their best to stop us from winning Banner 18.

          • forever_green

            I’m not arguing, just stating my opinions, that’s all. I normally argue like this .. go **** yourself you ******* *******, alright, that wasn’t directed at you.
            Really though, Danny’s best trade according to you during his tenure was assisted by a friend and a significant figure in Celtics history. ((Thats not a good thing and is concerning to me as a fan.)) Actually I would say the Ray Allen trade was his best move. You’re not alone, a lot of people praise what DA has done. I just don’t like the over praising of what to me is mediocre.

        • zippittyay

          I asked you previously to name 5 teams who draft better than Danny Ainge has. Are you still refusing?

          • RedsLoveChild

            Better yet, who has drafted WORSE than Dumb-Ass Ainge?
            Good luck finding even oneI

        • forever_green

          That 5.1 got me too.

  • RedwasKing

    Buddy or Murray would be the best options IMO.

  • Rob

    This is just one person’s opinion but at 2, I feel like the Lakers will take Buddy Hield or Dragan Bender, instead of Brandon Ingram. If Hield or Bender is still available at 3, I feel like the Celtics should take Hield over Bender and Ingram, with Bender being the second choice. They could take a shot at Ingram, if they want. I’ve been analyzing college players and how their game translate to the NBA level, and I’m not convinced Brandon Ingram’s physical stature and work ethic will make him a great player. Ben Simmons is going to be at least a perennial All-Star in the near future, solely on his ability to pass the ball and athleticism. With Ingram, I don’t see a great player in him. I feel like the Celtics’ best choice should be to draft Buddy Hield. All the coaches he played for have raved about his work ethic and progress, and I believe he has that Alpha-dog mentality (similar to Marcus Smart’s) to become an outstanding player in the league.

    • RedsLoveChild

      Draft Hield…trade Smart/Sully…sign a FA

    • Jake Gruber

      What sources do you have on ingrams work ethic?

      • Rob

        Because nobody talks about Ingram’s work ethic. You can easily find sources on Buddy and Bender’s work ethic, but nobody really talks about how great Brandon Ingram can be. Some people think that Ingram can be the next Kevin Durant, but that’s what they said about Andrew Wiggins too. Wiggins is/will be nowhere near the player Durant is. I personally think that Ingram’s ceiling is a poor man’s Andrew Wiggins. I could be totally misleading here.

  • Mike C

    Perfect timing with the video of Biyombo Chuck. All this talk of draft picks and college kids & this “Beast” is out there? I never heard of the guy till two weeks ago. Why are we drafting Hunters & Rozier’s when there are monsters like this in the world? This guy on the the Celtics team puts us in the eastern conference finals “Next Year.” Danny better care about doing his job, because right now he’s getting destroyed by other teams scouting personnel. Skip the draft completely, and sign the person from the Raptors that found Biyombo!

    • MikeABQ

      Biyombo is having a good series, but he will cost way more than he is worth this summer. Mickey has potential to grow into the same type of player for a fraction of the cost, or take a look at Cheick Diallo in this years draft who projects to be a similar athlete. And Biyombo was drafted 7th by Charlotte a few years ago, so he was pretty well regarded prospect

      • Mike C

        I’ll keep an eye on Diallo this draft. If we can pick up anyone who can rebound near to Biyombo’s caliber, it will be a giant step forward for this franchise. That being said, we all know how fond Ainge is of drafting guards who cant shoot.

        • MikeABQ

          I do agree, a shot blocking/athletic rebounding big would be a really nice change from Sully

    • MikeABQ

      I don’t think Bismack Biyombo is the difference between losing in the first round and getting to the eastern conference finals

  • TinyCornbread

    I’m on board with drafting bender or possibly Murray. I’d also do numbr 3 for Okafor but honestly I wouldn’t add too much more to that to get him. Both are number 3 picks. I get that size is more valuable but Okafor has warts and Philly needs a point guard desperately so again I wouldn’t overpay for Okafor. You can’t tell much from a few video clips but from the little I’ve seen Bender appears to have a passion for the game. He has what kelly olynk doesn’t have and that’s some fire. I agree 100% with Danny that his first charge is to do no harm. I know Cousins is supremely talented but do you really want that knucklehead on your team? Interesting tidbit in the philly papers today about how there’s some concern over simmons and the fact that he’s making a documentary on himself. I think there’s a shot that Philly passes on Simmons and takes Ingram. After Smart’s performance against Atlanta I don’t trade him. He has a lot of flaws but man that guy comes up big. He just needs to do it more often. I like Dunn but if we take him then we need to move Rozier and possibly smart

    • adam

      They need a guard. Thats why they draft Dunn or Hield….

  • Michael Merriam

    Why all the Rozier criticism? No one taken after him has proven any better thus far.

    Young has been a huge disappointment and I’m thinking C’s eat his salary in favor of roster spot.

    Jury still out on Hunter, loooong way to go on D.

    Hield reminds me of a more stable Nick Young. Decent role player but not a #3 pick. Dunn has immense talent but not always checked in. I don’t see him jiving with C’s culture.

    Jamal Murray is the safe pick. Hard worker, great shooter, good size/strength, diverse offensive game. Too many guards? But we desperately need a 2nd “scoring” guard with supplemental passing instincts. He’s got a higher floor than Bender, higher ceiling than Hield, better attitude than Dunn. Not that Dunn has a “bad” attitude, but he often appeared to play below his talent level this year, is highly turnover prone, and apparently has no interest in Boston due to overcrowded backcourt.