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Your Morning Dump… What’s the chance Rondo stays and Green is traded?

Chuck - Red's Army October 15, 2014 Celtics News, Jeff Green, Rajon Rondo, The Morning Dump, Vitor Faverani 35 Comments

Every morning, we compile the links of the day and dump them here… highlighting the big storyline. Because there’s nothing quite as satisfying as a good morning dump.

Boston has gauged the market for both over the last year or so, and its expected price for Rondo has been sky-high, per several league sources. That price will drop as Rondo’s deal ticks toward expiration, but the market for him is thin. Point guard is stacked leaguewide, and Rondo is 28, coming off ACL surgery, and seeking a max contract as he approaches free agency. A few suitors could wait to chase him in the offseason instead of dealing assets now and risking that Rondo walks in July.

…

Rondo is a flawed, temperamental player, but he’s a pass-first star who could work as bait for an alpha dog. Without him, Boston is just a collection of unmolded pieces waiting for a unifying force, playing the lottery in the meantime.

Green has a player option for 2015-16, meaning he may be working on a de facto expiring contract. His price will come down as the season moves along, but Boston might be willing to accept a diminished return. He’s a likable guy with more fans across the league than you might expect, and he can split minutes between the two forward positions.

…

The Raptors have bad memories of Joe Johnson bulldozing them in the post, and they have all their own picks, plus the midsize expiring deals linked to Landry Fields and Chuck Hayes. Atlanta and Detroit could use a boost on the wing, and it’s easy to see Green fitting as a hybrid forward in both Houston and New York. Denver’s roster seems ripe for a trade, though the Nuggets are crowded on the wing.

Green could fit in lots of places. If Boston doesn’t view him as a long-term core piece, he’ll be easy to move.

Grantland – 33 Crazy Predictions

Zach Lowe titled the column 33 Crazy Predictions, but this scenario he lays out about the Celtics is 100% reasonable.

When you move away from the blowhard side of the media, there’s plenty of experts who – after logically surveying the landscape – see Rajon Rondo staying in Boston long term. That second paragraph highlighted above is the key, “pass first star who could work as bait for an alpha dog.” Despite what slanderous claims Jeff Goodman throws around, I just can’t understand why elite players wouldn’t want to play with Rondo.

As for Green, I think his time in Boston is over. Danny Ainge took a necessary gamble on Green 4 years ago when this team desperately needed wing relief for Paul Pierce. While he’s had some flashes, he’s just not a top 1 or 2 player for a team with legit championship aspirations. Maybe there’s a scenario where Green comes back and plays the Alfred to a yet to be named Batman and Robin (Rondo), but I’m doubtful.

Speaking of Jeff, he’ll scheduled to make his preseason debut tonight against Toronto.

On Page 2, it sounds like Danny is keeping Vitor.

“We like Vitor,” Ainge said. “The thing we want right now is to get him healthy. We thought he would be ready for the start of training camp, but he had a little setback.”

Faverani had surgery last spring to repair a torn meniscus in his left knee. Swelling reappeared in the knee at the start of training camp, forcing Faverani to the sideline and, ultimately, to get a second opinion from a surgeon in Spain.

An MRI taken of the knee prior to surgery was inconclusive, and Ainge admitted he still hasn’t heard details of what was found in the knee during surgery.

The Celts also have rookie forward Dwight Powell under contract for next season. Though coach Brad Stevens has been intrigued by Powell’s athleticism and versatility, the team also has to cut down to 15 players by the start of the season.

“We have things we can do before we waive someone,” said Ainge, leaving the door open for another trade.

Herald

Powell and Faverani could both stay on this roster if Danny can make Joel Anthony disappear. Question is… who the hell is going to take on his $3.8 million?

The rest of the links:

ESPN Boston – Celtics build synergy with Red Claws | Morrison getting lessons in Stevens’ ways | CSNNE – Lowry rematch gives Smart chance to be aggressive | Vegas says Celtics are long shots to win awards |

swissflix

No more Rondo trade articles until he IS actually traded!!!! Please!!!
Paul Yee

so unfortunate that the first positive thing Lowe says about green is “he’s a likable guy.”
- disqus_mjP1eNT2Nf
  
  Maybe being a likeable guy is Jeff’s problem.
Curt Hays

In other words, the only teams that would want Rondo are those that actually want to try to win the championship.
KGino

Allow me to rephrase just one sentence for you: “Danny Ainge panicked and gambled on Green 4 years ago by trading our first legit center in a long time, thus effectively closing the Celtics championship window.”

I mean I know we needed “wing relief”, but not by creating another hole in the roster. Ever since that trade we’ve needed “big relief” (which is much more important to a team than “wing relief” for Pierce who was going to play close to 40 min in the playoffs anyways).
- Dave
  
  That’s what happens when you don’t resign Posey or go after Pietrus after the 08 chip and letting Tony Allen walk in 2010.
- Richard Jensen
  
  I’m having a hard time understanding the logic here.
  
  We all knew Perk was going to demand (and get) $10M/year, and we all knew that the C’s were going to have a hard time paying that (or, indeed, justifying it with Perk coming off an ACL tear).
  
  So let’s keep that in mind.
  
  Next, it’s not like Perk has, in the years since, justified the paycheck the Thunder gave him.
  
  Now, how would this have been *any* different if, instead of the C’s giving Jeff Green $9M, they gave Perk >$10M?
  - KGino
    
    What are you talking about Rich? I am unsure why you flew off on such a tangent — no one is mentioning anything about future contracts whatsoever. DA closed the championship window on us that year when he traded away perk, plain an simple. I don’t wanna get into playing the assumption game, if we would have paid him and at how much and how effective he may have played are all hearsay.
    
    The sentence was that DA made this trade out of necessity… My argument was simply that it was not necessity, it was more of a panicked move IMO. Had we kept perk that year, I think we had a much better chance at winning another championship than with Jeff Green. Without perk, I knew we had no chance. I’m not saying that any future years we would have had a shot after that, so no need to bring up the following years contract negotiations.
    
    Also, RR, RA, PP, KG, KP never lost a series together. So don’t tell me they didn’t have a chance at a ring that year
    - Richard Jensen
      
      1: The Celtics were going to let Perk walk. They weren’t going to sign him for $10M.
      
      2: Perk or no Perk, they weren’t going to beat the Heat after Wade took out Rondo.
      - KGino
        
        1.) haha dude again, no one is talking anything about Perk walking or not walking. What does that have to do with anything I said? How is that relevant to me saying he closed our championship window that year, when you’re talking about the following off season??? I don’t get YOUR logic.
        
        2.) Hearsay. Argue the concrete. Those 5 never lost a series together. You don’t split them up until you absolutely have to. Also, there was no way in knowing that would happen at that time, so that argument only makes sense in hindsight, which is stupid bc I am arguing what he did at that particular time.
      - Richard Jensen
        
        This is not arguing the concrete: “effectively closing the Celtics championship window”
        
        What you are doing there is making an inference of future probabilities on the basis of fact.
        
        It is no different than what I am doing by saying that the C’s would’ve either paid Perk and had a millstone, as the Thunder have had, or would’ve let him walk. That is also making an inference of future probabilities on the basis of fact.
      - KGino
        
        If you’re arguing that Jeff Green gave us a better chance at a ring than Perk, you’re downright dumb. If you’re arguing that they didn’t have a chance to beat the Heat that year, you’re downright dumb. They didn’t even beat the Mavs. Not to mention we had them beat in 5 games the NEXT YEAR WITHOUT PERK if not for some awful calls/breaks. So yea, I’d say we had at least a chance at a ring that year (NO ONE HAD ANY WAY OF KNOWING RONDO WOULD GET INJURED, and if we still had perk, who knows if he even would have????).
        
        Effectively closing the celtics window is not an argument. It’s a fact if you know the game. No perk and no shaq meant no chance. Sorry if you don’t know enough about the game to understand that.
        
        Where did i EVER argue that perk would have provided the offense that was taken away when rondo was crippled??? Stop making random stuff up. The point is, you have a team thats never lost together. Why would you trade one of those pieces away unless you were forced to? I am not saying they DEFINITELY would have won, but the window would have been OPEN. Again, if Perk is on the team, saying Rondo gets injured is HEARSAY. Changing a variable like one of your starters can obviously change the future. So unless you are a FORTUNE TELLER richard, stop arguing hypothetical situations as 100% truth.
        
        You come in here getting all worked up about completely irrelevant facts like perks contract negotiations… NO ONE EVEN BROUGHT THAT UP! And to top if off, all of your arguments are you telling me exactly what would have happened in situations that never happened…. Just stop! I am not even sure what you are trying to disprove in what I originally said. If you could tell me, that would be great.
      - Richard Jensen
        
        You in paragraph one:
        
        “If you’re arguing that they didn’t have a chance to beat the Heat that year, you’re downright dumb.”
        
        You in paragraph four:
        
        “all of your arguments are you telling me exactly what would have happened in situations that never happened”
        
        Also, which one of us is getting “all worked up”? Is it the guy repeatedly using all caps, or the other guy?
      - KGino
        
        CHANCE you IDIOT. CHANCE… As in a possibility to beat the heat. I am not arguing it as a fact that they would have!! Are you mentally challenged, Rich?
      - Richard Jensen
        
        Clearly one of us needs to not get all worked up about this.
      - KGino
        
        The guy who originally posted some big arse irrelevant argument is the guy who’s worked up originally. Now you got me worked up because arguing with you is like arguing with an intelligent 10 year old child who’s capable of writing sentences and words but incapable of thinking his ideas out clearly before he writes them
      - KGino
        
        You don’t address any arguments I make… Just dodge dodge dodge… Like what your point was to begin with… Or what Perk’s contract negotiations had anything to do with anything I said… Like a 10 year old
      - KGino
        
        1.) Writer says DA traded perk out of necessity.
        
        2.) I say he panicked and shouldn’t have traded perk bc it killed our champ hopes.
        
        3.) Here comes Richard Jensen, “BUT WE WOULDN’T HAVE RE-SIGNED PERK THE NEXT YEAR, AND HE WASN”T EVER THAT GOOD FOR THE THUNDER…”
        
        what? Like seriously, what the hell did that have to do with anything is my biggest question
      - KGino
        
        Rich Jensen, just another coward who won’t respond to my arguments directly. If someone is going to argue ANYTHING with ANYONE on this site, please at least make it RELEVANT to the original poster’s topic. And address someones argument directly instead of dodging it because you don’t have a good answer
      - Richard Jensen
        
        “Rich Jensen, just another coward who won’t respond to my arguments directly”
        
        It would be easier to reply to you if you didn’t post five wildly worded responses in rapid succession that only escalate in their characterizations, personal attacks and general incoherence.
        
        I’m done. Feel free to post several more insulting replies and declare victory because I have failed to convince you that you have confused facts and conclusions.
      - KGino
        
        dude I thought you needed the CAPS to get the point cuz everything you say is still pretty irrelevant to what i ask.. I was trying to help you out dummy
      - KGino
        
        “I’m done. I give up because if I tried to answer any of his arguments, i’d get slaughtered.” Yep, just go to bed buddy. Ignore all the questions i repeatedly asked you and pretend like you didn’t see them like a 10 year old. Next time come at me with something actually relevant and answer my GD arguments or I will flip out on you in the same fashion
      - Richard Jensen
        
        Correlation != causation
      - Richard Jensen
        
        So many replies……………………
        
        The argument that trading Perk “killed our championship hopes” is, dubious use of the possessive adjective aside, based on two assumptions that you take to be self-evident, and which you have thus far not bothered to defend.
        
        1 : That Perk would’ve neutralized some or all of the impact of the Rondo injury. You imply this when you say: ” If you’re arguing that they didn’t have a chance to beat the Heat that year, you’re downright dumb.” You venture further out into the unknown by speculating that the presence of Perk might have resulted in some unforeseen scenario in which Wade would not take out Rondo in transition.
        
        These are not self-evident facts. They are *your conclusions*.
        
        2 : Your second assumption is your problematic correlation=causation logic, in which you remind us, repeatedly, that the ’08 championship starting five never lost a series. This is true. But it is hardly a logical basis for any conclusions regarding alternate scenarios.
        
        Bill Russell never lost a game 7. Should Boston sign him to a contract, as a means of ensuring that they never, in future, lose a game 7?
      - KGino
        
        1.) Dude, you STILL don’t get it. I am talking about IN THAT MOMENT, DA should not have traded Perk because it IMMEDIATELY closed our championship window. If you want to play fortune teller and say Rondo still suffers the same exact injury, well then THAT would be when our championship window closed. IN THAT MOMENT no one knew rondo would get injured. So YES everyone thought we could beat the Heat in the moments before we traded for JG. Trading perk killed our championship hopes that year… And if you don’t agree… FINE.. But i’m sure 95%+ basketball fans would agree with me on that one. Lets ask some of the audience.
        
        Again, you bringing up a future Rondo injury is HINDSIGHT, something DA didn’t have when he traded Perk. IDK how you’re incapable of seeing that.
        
        2.) My basis for arguing that our champ window was still open is that our starting 5 never lost a series together. Again, a champ window is a CHANCE at a championship. If you are telling me that it is hearsay to say they had a CHANCE after they just lost the finals the previous year, just stop talking…Yes there is a correlation between a team never having lost a series and their championship window being open.
        
        3.) You STILL haven’t responded directly to any of my questions… So yes I will continue to label you a coward until you do so. (notice how I directly attack your responses, numbered and all??)
- Dirk Diggler
  
  The fact is that Danny Ainge effectively cost the Celtics a championship by trading Perk that season. All contract implications, hype around Green, need for a wing, etc. is totally irrelevant.
  
  The locker room gave itself an excuse to lose seeing their best friend Perk being jettisoned for Jeff Green and the chemistry was lost. Jeff Green was and has been simply a bad experiment. Great physical tools but an absolutely terrible grasp or feel for the game of basketball, period.
  
  On its surface, the deal made sense. That doesn’t change the fact it cost the Celtics another banner hanging from the Garden rafters. A gamble I’m positive Ainge regrets.
  - KGino
    
    Exactly Dirk… Still not sure what contract implications had to do with any of this.
adam

if Rondo stays I think Danny with pursue Kevin Durant heavily when his contract is up.
- disqus_mjP1eNT2Nf
  
  Even with Kevin Durant on board, I can’t see that happening personally ,though it’s nice to dream, this team is still well short of Championship calibre. The Celtics would need two more top players to reproduce the “Big Four” of 2008. I think we would have a better bench than 2008.
  - adam
    
    Sully is developing really well, that could be three quality players. But really, who knows what the future will hold for this team. “In Danny we trust” is the slogan right?
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Richard Jensen

The price for Rondo is not going to ‘go down’ as the trade deadline nears.

Zach’s got that all wrong.

Ainge is not going to insist on getting ‘something’ for Rondo. He’s not going to trade Rondo for some 2nd rate player to avoid letting Rondo “walk”. He’d rather take the cap space.
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On Page 2, it sounds like Danny is keeping Vitor.

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