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When advanced stats go wrong…

Chuck - Red's Army October 27, 2015 Celtics News, Jared Sullinger, Marcus Smart 9 Comments

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538 just published a new list of The 53 Best Franchise Players in the NBA. Before we dive in, it’s critical to understand the premise:

Specifically, we’ve projected the next six seasons of wins above replacement (WAR) for all 572 players in our database. Then we added the cumulative WAR totals over six seasons, with a slight tweak to reflect upside potential.

Two things we can’t stress enough: First, these ratings are purely statistical; there’s no manual tweaking involved. And second, focusing on the long term makes a lot of difference. Tim Duncan doesn’t appear in the top 53, but Jusuf Nurkic does.

Scrolling down the list you’ll find Jared Sullinger at 43. Yes, our Jared Sullinger:

With a bevy of crafty post moves, the undersized Sullinger has made an old-school playing style work for him. Although he sometimes struggles to score around the basket, the development of his outside shot keeps the Celtics happy and is one of several reasons CARMELO expects the Celts to have a breakout season. The throwback comp to Lonnie Shelton is dead on, though Sullinger has to do some work to move past where Shelton was at the same age.

Lonnie Shelton? You mean the guy with the 12 ppg, 6 rpg career averages? That equates to “franchise player?”

But wait, it gets better.

538 has Sully ranked higher then Paul George (45) and Andrew Wiggins (46). A guy on the verge of getting traded for a bag of balls is ranked higher than George and Wiggins.

What’s the likelihood Danny Ainge gets Larry Bird or Glen Taylor to bite on a 1-for-1 trade?

Moving on… the next Celtics player on the list is Marcus Smart at 13:

Given how much CARMELO likes Payton, it’s not surprising that it likes Smart also. He fits a broadly similar profile: His shooting just isn’t there yet, but most of his other skills were already league-average or above last season, when he was just 20. The thing about players like these is that they can be superstars if their scoring develops (Smart’s No. 1 comp is James Harden, for instance) but reasonably valuable all-around players even if it doesn’t.

I’m thrilled to see Marcus ranked so high. I’m praying he develops into a franchise player.

But the Celtics had the opportunity to trade Smart for, say, Klay Thompson (31), Andre Drummond (28), Blake Griffin (15) or Jimmy Butler (17), I’d have a real hard time saying no.

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  • DRJ

    Agreed — this analysis by 538 looks pretty nutty.

    Advanced stats, when calculated and used purely, can be very accurate and illuminating. Calculating the per-possession offensive and defensive performance of a team, for example, can uncover a LOT of otherwise-hidden info. But what 538 has done cannot be characterized as “advanced statistics.” It’s a highly-bastardized usage of some of that. There’s a lot of hand-waving going on there, and lots of poorly-substantiated assumptions about player-matching (e.g.: Smart matches Harden) and about the next 6 years.

    It’s all based on what they call “CARMELO” — which is (a) brand new, and (b) completely unproven, from what I read. Based on what they’ve published so far, I seriously doubt that CARMELO will EVER be proven accurate. One thing seems sure: their notion of Sully’s future is, like… out to lunch.

  • zippittyay

    Time for a new poll :)

  • zippittyay

    CARMELO reminds me of the Pre Cogs in Minority Report.

  • Richard Jensen

    538 has sold statistical sanity for clicks.

  • GinoTime

    It’s certainly wacky, but I wouldn’t impugn their integrity. There’s no “hand waving” going on at fivethirtyeight. Smart might not remind you of Harden, but as a person with a masters in predictive analytics who is also familiar with Silver and his group’s work I’m certain the stats are solid.

    The model needs work though -which makes sense, because it’s brand new and needs time to develop. Also, it’s ridiculously hard to do this type of prediction for basketball, as opposed to baseball or some other things. I’m glad they’re attempting something like this, and I’m excited to hopefully see their predictions evolve.

  • Sean

    People who say Smart can’t shoot are wrong. He can shoot, just not efficiently. But he can make the shot unlike peyton/rondo kind of guards.

  • Brick James

    At least they named the algorithm appropriately… CARMELO: over-hyped, and when it comes down to it, not really worth anything.

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