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Celtics slighted in FiveThirtyEight rankings of greatest teams

Chuck - Red's Army May 22, 2015 Around the NBA 8 Comments

Nate Silver and his team of brainiacs at FiveThirtyEight have released new rankings of the best NBA teams of all-time.

And here’s the top 10…

EloRankings

One Celtics team in the top 10? 17 championship teams and one makes the top 10???

Before I start spouting off, let’s look at the criteria:

  • The ratings depend only on the final score of each game and where it was played (home-court advantage). They include both regular-season and playoff games. The principal source for game-by-game scores is Basketball-Reference.com.
  • Teams always gain Elo points after winning games and lose ground after losing them. They gain more points for upset wins and for winning by wider margins.
  • The system is zero-sum. When the Denver Nuggets gained 30 Elo points by upsetting the No. 1 seed Seattle SuperSonics in the first round of the 1994 NBA playoffs, the Sonics lost 30 points.

Guess you can’t fault number-crunchers for putting heavy weight on final scores and margins, but that’s the real problem with this system. Teams who pull back on the throttle, whether in game or in season, are punished.

I’m pretty sure there isn’t a single, sensible Lakers fan (already an extremely rare find) who would pick the 08-09 Lakers as the greatest Lakers team. Our beloved 2008 Celtics champs rank 39th. Of all the C’s early dynasty teams, the 64-65 Celtics ranks the highest – 47th.  47th!

Five Thirty Eight addresses this disparity:

The list might seem to be biased toward relatively recent teams: Among the top 50 seasons all-time, only six from before 1980 make the list. This is mostly a consequence of there being more teams than there once were. Simply put, it’s much more impressive to be the best team in a 30-team league than in a 10-team league.

But it’s also hard to say the NBA is watered down, at least right now. In fact, it’s barely expanded in recent years, adding just one franchise since 1995. That makes recent teams’ performances more impressive than those from, for example, the early 1970s, when the NBA almost doubled in size over a few seasons. When Elo ranks a team higher or lower than you might expect intuitively, it’s usually because it perceives the team’s competition to be especially strong or especially weak.

Sorry, if there are only 9 teams in the league, I’m assuming each of those teams is STACKED. Lack of talent isn’t the reason why the NBA started with 9 franchises.

Sorry MJ and Chicago, the 86 Celtics will always be my #1. Five of their top 6 players turned out to be HOFers. All bad-ass mofos with giant balls.

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  • bill_nair

    This years Warriors at #4? Wow. How far down do they drop if they dont win the finals? Do they jump up to number 2 if they win this year? Seems kind of…ridiculous? The Warriors havent been that good, have they?

    I saw something on Elo’s earlier and it was rather confusing not sure im all that interested in figuring out. I do want to know why the Warriors are so damn high though. I feel like all their hype is based on the “darling of the NBA narrative” the media built for them since December.

    Not that they’re not a damn impressive team, they are, but one of the best all time? Not so sure.

  • Frank Aziza

    The 86 Celtics would best all of Jordan’s teams. If Jordan’s six championship teams played from 1980-1986 they may walk away with one title if they’re lucky.

  • Richard Jensen

    If you are looking for issues with the article, here you go:

    – Neither of the article’s authors disclose the adjustments they make to the Elo formula. They do not discuss the weight assigned to margin of victory, the weight assigned to a victory or a loss and the weight assigned to home-court advantage. Only the value of a victory is included in the Elo formula, and that for a very different form of competition. Their presentation strongly implies that they have made little to no change to the Elo formula. This is manifestly not the case. They have made assumptions and they will not discuss those assumptions. This is incredibly irresponsible.

    If you are looking for issues with the rating system in general, here is your starting point:

    – There are manifest differences in the game itself. No one suggests that Elo is a valid comparator among different eras of chess, and the rules to chess haven’t changed in a hundred years.

    With tweaking you could use the Elo formula to cross-compare football, baseball, hockey and basketball teams to produce an incredibly meaningless but mathematically defensible ranking of ‘the best team ever’. Would anyone on the planet consider the results to be valid? Of course not. The sports are totally different.

    Arguably, Elo can provide a valid starting point for evaluating teams in certain defensible eras in which rules were consistent and style of play was consistent. But to use a simple mathematical formula to compare a team from 2015 with a team from 1955? That is, on its face, so absurd that it should have been immediately dispensed with.

    But of course, this isn’t about looking for an intellectually honest and interesting way of revisiting eras of basketball. That’s just what it purports to be about.

    What it’s really about is the clicks, and if that means being intellectually dishonest and knowingly using flawed analytics, well, so be it.

  • ThatGuyOverTheOcean

    5 Bulls team in the top 10? The teams from 95-97 were great teams but basically played against NOBODY, it was the worst era of the NBA.
    And then: since they say they carry part of the rating from one year to another, why the highest Celtics team of the 60s dynasty is only ranked 47th?
    There’s some kind of weighting going on, something which is clearly biased towards modern times (which would explain why this year’s Warriors are ranked 4th: while they are really good, I dare anyone to say they are HISTORICALLY good) and which they won’t disclose. Which means, this ranking is bullcrap.

  • Roy Boi

    Personally, I like Nate Silver he’s usually spot on with number crunching. Still, I have to strongly disagree with this ranking. As much as I respect analytics it shouldn’t be the ‘be-all and end-all’ discussion when it comes to sports specifically basketball. I’m sure ELO has it’s flaws just like PER.

    There’s no way u can rank this current GSW or the ’09 Lakers ahead of the ’08 Celtics, or those great Celtics or Lakers teams from the 60’s-80’s. Still I’m not losing any sleep.

  • forever_green

    This is one of the worst lists ever. Period

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