So maybe it wasn’t a travel

Ok man… I hate to call a reader delusional… but that post right there was kind of insane.
Do you HONESTLY think (a) The Celtics are 30 points better than the Cavs on any given night and (b) the NBA is going to jeopardize its credibility as a league to prevent said 30 point blowouts?
I’ll bet you can go back and look at most of those foul calls on the C’s and find they’re mostly legit. And you know what? That’s gonna happen in every game.
The referees are not out to get the Celtics. I don’t understand how the league screwing the Celtics over makes any sense. Every time the Celtics do well the ratings go through the roof… merchandise sells like crazy… and the league makes money.
You guys… honestly… you need to chill. I’m not saying it in a “I want to silence you” kind of way. I’m saying it in a “you’re really coming off looking insane” kinda way.

OK.. I won’t get into an argument over whether the refs are any good. I know they’re not very good at all.
But they’re very often not very good for both sides. There were a few calls the Cavs could argue over too. And if the C’s get a bunch of the calls in Game 3… then that’s how it goes.
So I won’t sit here and say the game was well officiated. It’s almost impossible to get that nowadays. But I will argue with the people who say this is intentional… that the league is orchestrating a hit on the Celtics and their success is in spite of David Stern’s best efforts to destroy the Green.

The problem is that even while some of the calls aren’t game changers..they are momentum killers by killing the celtics aggressiveness…and they celtics start to look at the refs instead of playing which i dont condone but thats just reality…its the chain of events..and its the calls in the first half that allowed Mo to get off in the second half..maybe Pierce would have blocked that dunk or gone up and hit him rather than trying to make a clean play..that dunk ignited Mo and changed that game…Pierce’s fouls in the first half of game 1 were all phantom calls and it really slowed down his games because he did come out looking to take it to Lebron and the Cavs..maybe it wouldnt have been a 30 point win..but it would have been 15 easily on Saturday..

There’s no question the refs stink in this league. They MIGHT call one complete game well 1 or 2 times per season, and I’m not exaggerating, it’s that rare.
The answer is to use video more. But the discussion about last night’s game is not whether the refs were bad or not, because they’re just about ALWAYS bad. It’s whether they tried to steal the game.
Did they try to help the Cavs? I didn’t see that at all. In fact, though they did make 1 or 2 mistakes during the Cavs’ big run in the 4th — it seemed they got caught up in the excitement of the building — they also helped end it with a key offensive foul call. And though there was a big FT disparity, I carefully noted that it was real this time — the Cs committed many fouls, often on purpose. (There’s no natural law that says foul counts must be even in all games.) And there were many no-calls on fouls the Celtics committed — seemed like the refs were mostly TRYING to let them play… which is a GOOD thing, btw.
The fact that the refs fell for some of the Cavs acting is not evidence of bias, just poor refereeing. Those events were typically hard to see. And refs guess a lot… that’s part of their problem. The WORST, btw, was when West pretended to get hit in the eye by Rondo’s hand wave… and CONTINUED to pretend as he was preparing to shoot! Give him credit for staying in the role! The problem for Cleveland? Refs have DVR too. They will see that little acting job, and my guess is they won’t be happy about it. All good for us.
The refs DID steal Game #1. The bias was blatant in that game. I didn’t see anything like that in Game #2.

damn just saw nba.com, point guard party and they put Fisher in the same picture with Rondo and Deron williams! WTF seriously… FISHER? Rondo and D-will can destroy with one hand tied to their back. The one thing fisher’s better is probably flopping or getting dunked on

I still think it is a travel. The Last dribble step should count as a step. It is possible to pause the tape where the ball leaves lebron’s hand and his foot is down, that counts as his first step.

Are you kidding? did you see game 3 or 4 of the Lakers vs Thunders series? Kobe had 0 Ft.. Saying paul doesnt get to the line is BS and you know it. Lets bring back the Lakers vs Celts final…Didnt Leon Powe, a scrub, shoot more ft then the entire Lakers bench?

i never said he doesn’t get to line… obv he does. Im just saying he doesn’t get that treatment… In the LA vs OKC series i remember one time they called a travel on kobe then he went to the ref and said i didn’t travel then the ref said okay its kobe he didn’t travel and reversed the call… im not saying these guys get to the line more then others or whatever… im just saying that the “darlings” get the benefit of the doubt more then the others. And also they get more love from the media…remember that game against cleveland in the Q our championship year when lebron was clearly moving his feet and pp got called with the offensive foul and it should have been a block… But then again im sure there are examples of PP getting the benefit of the doubt too, its just he doesn’t get it as much as those other four

I never said Paul doesn’t get to the line… Obv he does. All im saying is that there are a select few that get extra special treatment and those are the “darlings” of the NBA… Did you see when Kobe got called for traveling vs OKC and then he told the ref “i didn’t travel” and then the ref said okay its kobe and he reversed the call. Thats the stuff im talking about. The extra special treatment they get, that others dont. If Paul was one of the “darlings” you think they call that T on the Mo flop… There are exceptions to everything and in general there is no doubt in my mind certain players get better treatment then the rest…im not complaining its just the way the league works. Its also those select few that get the majority of love from the media (in general)

The Celtics want to foul and foul a lot. When you establish a physical game you become the team that gets the lion’s share of calls against you. What you also get is a boat load of no calls (both for and against you). This pressure has resulted in the C’s being in foul trouble, the Cavs getting way more free throws, and the C’s winning 6 of 8 quarters IN CLEVELAND.
This is about tempo. The Celtics are in control and we all want to talk about the refs. I say let Cleveland have four times as many trips to the charity stripe. They only shot 68% last game and excessive fouling would indicate to me the Celts are staying aggressive.
Celtics in six should they keep up this pace.

The Celtics want to foul and foul a lot. When you establish a physical game you become the team that gets the lion’s share of calls against you. What you also get is a boat load of no calls (both for and against you). This pressure has resulted in the C’s being in foul trouble, the Cavs getting way more free throws, and the C’s winning 6 of 8 quarters IN CLEVELAND.
This is about tempo. The Celtics are in control and we all want to talk about the refs. I say let Cleveland have four times as many trips to the charity stripe. They only shot 68% last game and excessive fouling would indicate to me the Celts are staying aggressive.
Celtics in six should they keep up this pace.

I see that move all the time, his feet left the ground after he caught the ball coming back from his last dribble. Doc had a bad angle on it and didn’t see that he was still dribbling the ball right before he jumped. If he took two steps, left the ground and came back down without getting rid of the ball then it’s a travel. Totally legitimate jump stop.

definitely not a travel. i didn’t think so when i watched the game, and was surprised reggie was so adamant as the showed the replay. you have to look at when he picks up his dribble. he takes the ball into both hands as he goes up in the air, no steps afterwards. he lands on both feet. that’s a jump stop. you can then take a jump shot. totally legal. ‘bron travels a lot, so i think people assumed it was a travel, but this is one case where he didn’t.

Exactly, its not a conspiracy.
It is a few people in the league cheating against the Celtics and for the Cavs, for the past 2+ years.
That’s all it is.
People think you need to hear the conspiracy line. Yo, this isn’t politics.
If JFK was a conspiracy, thousands and thousands had to have been involved with coverups, same thing with 9/11.
THIS IS NOT POLITICS!!! It is a basketball game. It is about 10-15 people in power who cheat and that is it. That is not a conspiracy. Its Stern and all the head refs. They hate the Celtics and cheat them. This is not that difficult to understand.

Dude, you are only taking 1 game here and there. Just because the Celtics got 1 game with calls for Leon Powe, doesn’t mean they didn’t get cheated in another 100 games. And yes Kobe has horrible ref nights too and doesn’t get the calls all the time like the Cavs do.
But don’t take 1 game, look at all the games.

Dude I’ve watched about 100 Cavs games last 2 years.
Cavs get 8-10 calls almost every single game.
They are the most cheated and over exxagerated and overrated team in sports history, and its not even close.

100% travel.
Can anybody drive the lane, jump up for a layup and come back down on the ground?
Have you ever seen anybody do that?
NO.
100% TRAVEL WAKE UP PEOPLE.

Sorry, but I see only one step prior to the jump. And even that one step is happening while he’s picking up the dribble, which, depending on how the ref feels, could even be considered part of the dribble and NOT a step. But that’s irrelevant, because there’s certainly no MORE than one step, which, when added to the jump, equals two steps in total, which is legal. (Imagine, though… if we have a hard time seeing it on the video, the refs could not POSSIBLY have seen 2 steps.)

100% TRAVEL, NOT EVEN CLOSE.
It is not a normal dribbling motion what he does with his feet. He jumps with his feet.
If that isn’t a travel, then ANY player can drive the lane, jump as high as they want into the air, and come back down on the ground with the ball and the ball is still in play.
THAT NEVER HAPPENS.
100% TRAVEL WAKE UP STOP MAKING EXCUSES AND STOP LYING.

TRAVEL!
More than 2 steps = travel. 1st step he caught the ball. Jump step = 2 steps. 1 + 2 = 3. Travel.
Reminds me of the girls in gym class who kind of knew how to shoot a jumper but would take an extra “jump step”.
Mikey is 100% right.

The numbers prove the cheating and it cannot be disputed.
19 minutes no foul in Game 2 Cavs.
no foul in the 1st Qtr Game 5 Heat.
Why do the Barry’s hate the Celtics?
Why does espn hate the Celtics?
Why does Barkley, Hollinger, Stein, Adanade, Rose, Abbot, Broussard, Thorpe, Sheridan, Ford, espn reporters, Stern, Crawfords, Delaney, Salvatore, Mauer, Rush, Bavetta, Eric Snow, the guys on nbatv, mike & mike, etc. etc. etc. all hate the Celtics?
Do you see anybody from espn hate the Cavs? Any announcers? Any ex-NBAers making comments.
Wake up.
The Celtics weren’t ranked better than 10th on any Power Rankings going into the playoffs.
In 2008 they were 6 games better than everybody and ranked 6th on nba.com
They cheat.
I already gave you the Celtics personal foul numbers from 1990-2010. I will give you the Lakers too.
ONLY 3 OUT OF THE LAST 40 SEASONS SINCE 1990-91 FOR BOTH THE LAKERS & THE CELTICS HAVE CALLS EITHER GONE FOR THE CELTICS OR AGAINST THE LAKERS.
3 OUT OF 40 SEASONS!!!! THAT IS IT!!!
And you still think they don’t cheat?
Wake up.
1591 personal fouls all year for the Cavs in 2009-10. 22ND LOWEST TOTAL IN NBA HISTORY!!! CELTICS HAVE NEVER BEEN CALLED FOR LESS THAN 1644 FOULS IN A SEASON FOR 65 STRAIGHT YEARS!!!!
No foul call in 19 minutes in Game 2 for the Cavs.
How much do you want?
Its cheating.

correction 67 of their last 103 playoff games=FACT

We as Celtics fans and Celtics players we don’t give a crap who wins.
We just want to see a fairly officiated game and good sportsmanship.
If Orlando beats Celtics who cares?
If Utah beats Celtics who cares?
If Phoenix beats Celtics who cares?
But we are not going to lose to a bunch of idiots who get blatant favortism(Cavs), or dudes that are extremely bitter(Lakers).
Because neither of those teams do it the right way. They cheat heavy for the Cavs and lightly for the Lakers.
CELTICS DO NOT LET CHEATERS WIN END OF STORY.

I’ve seen jump-stops hundreds of times. They are never called for traveling. It’s accepted. And this was simply a jump stop at the end of a dribble drive. He didn’t jump UP… he jumped FORWARD… at the end of a dribble drive. It’s not an “up-and-down” in my book…
…but at least that question is somewhat open to debate. There’s NO question that he did not take more than 2 steps — one step prior to the jump, then the jump itself.

The refs don’t stink.
That is the cop out and the excuse.
They know what they are doing.
They do it on purpose.
Almost every questionable call always relate to who has what amount of fouls etc.
Yes the refs have screwed the Lakers and Spurs. But then they go back and give the Lakers 3 calls for every 1 they mess up.
The Cavs have not gotten screwed now in any game for the past 2 years.
Just because the Celtics get 1 call, or the Lakers get 1 call against them doesn’t mean it is fair.
Bad calls go both ways. But it is not an even both ways. Game 1 was 12-3 questionable calls in favor of the Cavs. Game 2 was 13-2 questionable calls in favor of the Cavs. I can sit here and tell you that the Celtics got 3 calls in Game 1 and 2 in Game 2, but if I don’t tell you that the Cavs got 8-10 more than them then my reporting is one-sided.
Its not a conspiracy. Its a bunch of guys who hate the Celtics that cheat against them because they are in positions of power to do so.
This is not politics. Do not use the word conspiracy when dealing with basketball.
Game 2 of this series was one of the biggest ripoffs in sports history.

Since when is a jump stop = to 2 steps? Never. It happens all the time in the NBA, and is never called. KG did this in the 08 Finals… Game 4, 3rd quarter, if memory serves. And Paul has done it many times. Jump stop is not treated as a travel in the NBA.

Its not a jump stop, its a jump.
He didn’t move his feet like regular people do when you dribble.
Can any player just jump straight up in the air after dribbling and come back down on the ground?
No.
100% Travel.
Its not a jump stop. Its a jump. He jumped in the air looking to pass, nobody was there and he landed on the ground.
100% travel, not even close.

A jump stop is one motion.
That was not one motion.
It was a jump and then land on the ground.
Travel.

Watch the play.
1st LeBron jumps in the air and passed the ball to Jamison. Had he come back down with the ball before passing to Jamison it would have been a travel.
Same thing the 2nd time he got the ball.
He traveled.
LeBron jumped 2 times during that play.
Once before he passed the ball to Jamison, and once when he drove the lane on the jump and travel.
The 1st time he passed the ball to Jamison before he landed on the ground, the 2nd time he just landed on the ground and well that’s a travel.
stop making excuses for liars.

Before LeBron got the ball he passed it to Jamison.
When he passed it to Jamison, he jumped up in the air.
Had he landed on the ground it would have been a travel. However he passed the ball to Jamison first.
The 2nd time he didn’t pass or shoot the ball, he jumped up in the air, landed and traveled.
Do you ever see anybody jump that high in the air while they are dribbling?
No. Its a travel. That proves it. End of story.
Lebron passes it to Jamison first time he jumps and gets rid of the ball, 2nd time he lands on the ground with the ball.
Travel.

That last sentence… you must have meant to say Game 1 was one of the biggest ripoffs. Can’t be Game 2, we WON that one. lol

He’s not even jumping towards the basket, he is jumping away from the basket, so he is not looking to shoot. He is also looking to pass the ball.
It is a travel.
That was not 1 motion going up for a shot.
It was 2 motions. 1 to jump and the 2nd one to look around whether to pass or shoot.
Travel, no question about it.

He jumped away from the basket, and did not look to only shoot the ball. It was 2 motions.
End of story.
Travel.

Jumping high is part of it, becuase he is jumping to pass or shoot.
He is not just jumping to take a shot.
He is not going towards the basket, he does not keep his eye on shooting the ball.
Travel.

The shot is irrelevant. He could pass instead. The question is only whether it’s a travel, not what he does after he lands.
Unless, of course, he takes ANOTHER step after landing — which is what Lebron did in the ORIGINAL “Crab Dribble”, which WAS a travel, and was called as such.
Look… it’s impossible for EVERY play to be wrong and an attempt to screw the Celtics. If you contend that EVERY TIME, you will inevitably lose credibility. ‘Nuf said.

Thank you for the links and the logic. I’ve been wondering about this “jump stop” thing… happens all the time, but I could not find a rule specifically on the subject. Good one.

Towards the basket, looking to shoot it happens.
Not away from the basket, looking to pass.

It was still a rip off, it doesn’t matter if we won.
Just because the Celtics win the game doesn’t mean there were 13-2 calls against them.

Tell me how a jump step is different than taking two steps (with the ball in hands). Both feet will eventually leave the ground. Once you’ve landed, you have to choose your pivot foot and if you lift the pivot foot, you have just taken the 3rd step with your non-pivot foot and that’s a travel.
Do you think a jump step = 1 step? I cant do two jump steps, that would be traveling.
True, a jump step is not a travel. Add another step, then it becomes a travel. Like what Lebron did, except he took a step first, then the jump step.

You are permitted to LIFT your pivot foot with the ball still in your hands. What’s not allowed is to bring that foot DOWN AGAIN. So the jump after the landing was NOT a step at all, because the ball left his hands before he landed again.
Let’s put this one to bed, right now. Here are quotes from the actual rule book:
– “A progressing player who jumps off one foot on the first step may land with both feet simultaneously for the second step. In this situation, the player may not pivot with either foot and if one or both feet leave the floor the ball must be released before either returns to the floor.”
– “The first step occurs when a foot, or both feet, touch the floor after gaining control of the ball.”
The first quote is an exact description of what Lebron did. He “jumped off one foot” and “landed with both feet simultaneously for the second step.” That quote ALONE should put this question to rest, period.
Another aspect of the play was that Lebron actually COLLECTS THE BALL AS HE TAKES HIS FINAL PRE-JUMP STEP. He then jumps off the foot that took the final step, and lands with both feet. The step he takes WHILE COLLECTING THE BALL is typically NOT considered step 1. If he were dribbling straight to the basket, he could take TWO MORE STEPS, and it would not be called a travel. That is because of the second quote above, which stipulates that the step count begins “after gaining control of the ball.” I.e., the “gathering” phase is not considered a step, since the player does not yet “have control”.
I think this nails this issue shut.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveling_%28basketball%29

If the same team were to win every year, no one would want to watch except for the followers of that team. The game would be boring knowing what the outcome was going to be. The league needs new teams to step up and if that team needs help ….

How is it not a travel?
i watched your video, the first thing he says is “soon as you dribble you gotta jump”
you dont get an extra step to go into your jump stop, you have to jump stop after your last dribble, but before your first step, Lebron clearly dribbles, picks up his dribble, takes a step (arguably two), and then jump stops, thats a travel
the travel came when he already gave up his dribble, then proceeded to take another step before he jump stopped
you are not allowed to have possesion of the ball with both hands, let me repeat, be holding the ball with two hands, before you take a step and go into your jump stop
a jump stop is inteded to be in the process of dribbling, not a tool that allows you to pick up the ball and take three steps

so go smoke crack and leave me alone then.

he didn’t take 3 steps….but even if you say you did, the NBA allows 3 steps. New rule this year.
not a travel.

you’ve come up with 10 different reasons and called them all “the reason” it was a travel.
He couldn’t jump to his left, that’s out of bounds. He couldn’t jump forward, that’s a charge. He jumped around the defender and went straight up into a shot.
Dude… it’s a good play. Let it go.

Dude… you’re making shit up now. I’m done with this discussion. If you don’t understand the basic rules of the game, then I can’t help you. Reply to this as often as you want and claim you were right all you want. I feel like at this point, Red Auerbach’s ghost could come back and tell you it was a legit jump stop and a totally legal play and you’d still argue… so I’m done.
Have fun in your little conspiracy world of cheating refs. I feel bad that you can’t enjoy a basketball game… or a 20 point win in Cleveland. You took a simple post explaining how a play we thought was a travel actually was a legal play and you turned it into an exercise in inducing strokes through written word.

Its not a conspriacy I told you that already.
Its cheating, big difference.

I see. I’ve never read the rule book. I just made an assumption (I know, ass out of you and umption) that the rules were the same as playing on the playground.
No matter how many times I watch that video, it just looks like a travel. I guess the way I’ve been playing the game has been embedded in my head.

As you can see from the first rule quote (in bold, above and below), jumping off one foot and landing on the ground with both feet is considered ONE STEP. In this case, Lebron’s second step (at most). As it happens, the rule book specifically mentions this exact case.

The rule book is very clear, specifically identifying this exact case. So enough already. It is ok, you know, to pick up new knowledge (as I did by looking up the rule), and admit it.

yea before i saw looked at the rule i did not think you were permitted a step and then a jump stop after you pick up the ball, which is apparently the case, so no travel i guess than

Now there are 3 reasons why it was a travel.
1.Going away from the basket.
2.Looking to pass.
3.Picked up the ball with two hands before he takes the first step to jump into the air the first time.
You cannot do all three things and think you are doing a jump stop.
To do a jump stop you cannot pick up the ball with both hands before the 1st time you go up in the air.
In the 3 videos that Red posted, Lebron is not doing what either of those guys are doing.
1.Both players are going towards the basket, LeBron is not.
2.Both players are looking to shoot, LeBron is not.
3.Both players do not gain control of the ball until they are up in the air the 1st time, both players do not grab the ball with both hands they grab the ball with one hand, LeBron grabbed the ball with both hands BEFORE he went up in the air the 1st time.
100% official travel.